During a recent visit to Lagos, Nigeria, Diplomatic Watch Editor Menkiti Onyebuchi Bernie sat down with H.E. Jens-Petter Kjemprud, the former Norwegian Ambassador to Nigeria, at the exquisite Eko Hotel and Suites on Victoria Island. What began as a casual conversation evolved into an in-depth exploration of key issues. In this exclusive interview, Ambassador Kjemprud bared his mind on several issues including trade, business, diplomacy, peace, reconciliation, his current role at “The Center for Humanitarian Dialogue” (HD), and Nigeria’s current state of affairs. Join us as we take a closer look at these topical issues through the lens of this seasoned diplomat.
In 2018, barely two years before you departed Nigeria as the head of the Norwegian mission, you spoke to Diplomatic Watch (DW). Back then, you spoke a lot about your impact in the area of business between Nigeria and Norway and also on the Norwegian culture, especially the Norwegian Seafood Festival. Since you left in 2020, how has it been with the mission, particularly as it concerns your footprints?
First of all, I spent two years in Nigeria as the Norwegian Ambassador before that interview. During my years as the Norwegian Ambassador, I focused on several things, particularly building bilateral relations between Nigeria and Norway based on business relations. When I came in 2016, we had approximately eighty Norwegian companies doing business in Nigeria. By the time I left Nigeria—not because of me, but because of what we did to attract these companies—we had about a hundred Norwegian companies, most of them working in the energy sector. And now we are gradually moving from oil and gas to renewable energy. I have just been talking to Norwegian companies’ representatives here today, and a lot of the new companies, most of them in the oil and gas industry, still operate in renewables, solar panels, first of all. They focus on rooftop solar panels on business buildings and solar panel plants. Climate change is affecting every country, including Nigeria. I mean, it’s so hot in Nigeria. I was walking around this evening, and it’s still extremely hot, even at around 9 p.m. So renewable energy is a very important area, and there’s a lot of potential in Nigeria as they can be deployed to rooftops in marketplaces, small solar panels on small shops, and solar panels designed for bigger buildings. So, I understand that’s going on very well, which has developed quite a substantial Norwegian presence since I left. So business is one, and the other one is the film industry. I’m having some meetings here today to discuss the film industry. The film industry, I believe, is extremely important to Nigeria.
Since you have mentioned it, the film industry, an area in which Nigeria has a huge comparative advantage, it’s an area that leads Africa and has made great strides globally. Can you tell us about the relations between Nigeria and Norway with regards to the film industry?
I started working on that while I was here serving as the ambassador. As it happened, there was a Nigerian filmmaker who left Nigeria for Norway and now lives in my hometown. He makes good Nigerian-Norwegian core production. We are trying to link the film industry in the two countries so they can develop joint ventures, learn from each other, and improve through cooperation. I know the embassy is working on this, but I am also working on it on a personal level. I think there’s big potential given that the number of films made in this country is enormous. If you will allow me to say it, it’s usually not of the highest quality yet popular all over the continent and globally. But there are also top-notch quality films, which are becoming much more common in the Nigerian industry. It has qualified Nigeria to compete on the global scene with American films, British films, European films, and Asian films like you have in India. I think the three biggest are Hollywood, Bollywood, and Nollywood.
Is this your first visit to Nigeria since you left the Norwegian diplomatic mission?
This is only my second visit since 2020. But it’s the first bigger or longer visit since I left Nigeria. The first visit was for the organization I work for. We’re working with the former president of Nigeria, Olusegun Obasanjo, on peace and reconciliation processes in Africa. But on this one, it’s more of a private visit. I have a meeting in Abuja to meet the embassy to try to see how we can work together and maybe see if there are ways, we can complement each other. So, it’s for a private initiative that I visited and because of my experience serving in this county.
Given your experiences interacting with both average Nigerians and the leadership of the country and being knowledgeable of the country’s socio-economic and political history, what do you think is Nigeria’s biggest potential?
It’s the human resource capital, the population, the size of the market, and Nigeria’s access to the whole ECOWAS region. It’s a market of about 500 million people if you add other ECOWAS countries to Nigeria. But first and foremost is the human capital, which includes Diaspora Nigerians. I have a particular interest in literature, and some of the biggest and best novelists in the world are Nigerians. The number of novels coming out of Nigeria is enormous. And these novels are of high quality, from Chinua Achebe, Wole Soyinka, and Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie. Interestingly, the number of female writers coming into the scene in Nigeria is higher than that of men. I’m in Norway trying to promote Nigerian literature because it’s big.
As one who indulges in promoting culture, and food being an integral part of it, what was your favorite local cuisine while serving in Nigeria?
Oh! That’s competitive for me. The rice competition between Nigeria and Ghana over whose jollof rice is better sounds off here. It’s a big competition. But I‘m obliged to say it because I’m from Norway and the main ingredient in pepper soup is stockfish. And you know stockfish comes from Norway. Its exports into Nigeria began as early as 1884. It began first with the Scottish exporting it. When they couldn’t keep up with demand, Norway came in 1884. It is becoming quite expensive, yet its demand is exceptional. Nigeria is one of the top three biggest markets for Norwegian stockfish; Italy and Brazil are the other two. I think it’s part of the staple food in Nigeria. I expect the demand to continue.
I am not moving away from the earlier question. I’m not sure if you have given me a direct answer. Can you confirm between jollof rice and stock-fish pepper soup, which is your favorite local cuisine?
Jollof rice is a big competition. I was once a judge in the search for new ways to use stockfish. Maybe pepper soup. Maybe jollof rice. Well, I think jollof rice is at the top of the list.
In the course of this interview, you referred to peace and conflict resolution in Africa. As someone with knowledge of the crisis in Africa, what’s your take on the ECOWAS impasse with its disgruntled members: Niger, Burkina Faso, and Mali? Do also consider this in light of the coups, the suspension from the African Union, and the subsequent renouncing of their ECOWAS and AU membership.
For me, it’s a reflection of the legacy of colonialism. I don’t think the French conducted themselves very well in those countries. So, it’s a strong reaction to that. But it is also a strong reflection of how the unipolar world is changing. And how America being the only superpower is changing dramatically with the rise of China and, recently, the continuous expansion of BRICS into more countries. I do not understand why Nigeria wasn’t invited, considering Nigeria’s economy, oil production, and market size. For me, it will be the natural choice to be invited to BRICS.
Aren’t you being diplomatic when you say you do not know why Nigeria wasn’t invited?
Frankly, I do not know what really happened right there. One aspect is that Nigeria didn’t actively pursue it. While countries like Ethiopia, which may account for half of the population of Nigeria, cannot compete with the economy and resources of Nigeria, for me, it would have been a given that Nigeria should be invited. However, if they had pursued it actively, they would have been members. As I understand it, Nigeria generally doesn’t understand why it was not invited and why it would need to apply some pressure before it is invited to become a member. I think that should happen. Nigeria should have a natural place in the BRICS, in my opinion.
It does appear that you believe that BRICS will favor Nigeria. Do you think that the driving objectives of BRICS will favor Nigeria in the face of its strong ties with the West?
I think so. But you remember Argentina was invited but declined because they see themselves as closer to the U.S. than China? I think Nigeria may also have considered that. However, Nigeria is close to the U.S. and also close to China, given that it has a lot going on with China in terms of trade and infrastructure. But think of South Africa, which has a close relationship with the West and also with China. Yet it joined the BRICS. In my opinion, any country should not place itself in one camp because it is a given that a country needs to have close ties with both countries. But then try to take the better of the two when you have to, if not for anything but to pursue the country’s interests. This means taking the best from all sides as they come.
In 2015, you paid a courtesy visit to the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC) headquarters in Abuja. Speaking to the then head of the commission, Prof. Attahiru Jega, you thanked the body for overseeing a successful election, which is often a rarity in politically volatile African countries. Looking at the 2015 election and then the 2023 elections, what are your thoughts as an observer?
It’s a tricky question. Sometimes people do not decide on Election Day. I mean, it’s sometimes based on influences and impacts candidates have made before or during the campaigns. I believe politics is 20% politics and 80% organization. More so, it’s very difficult to run against an incumbent or an incumbent political party because of the advantages of being an incumbent. What was interesting in the last election was that it was not a two-horse race. I mean, Peter Obi came in as a third force and did exceptionally well to such an extent you could question that there was some rigging because of what we all felt was a swelling popular support. But it is breaching the pattern that existed that made it special.
Will you call that an improvement?
I believe so. From what I saw, the youth participated well in electioneering. So that is something, as it gives the electorate a sense of ownership and more choices. I believe that the future of this country belongs to the youth. I think Peter Obi’s campaign shows that the youth can organize beyond religious lines, regional basis, and party affiliations. Which is something quite new.
Are their existing programs run by you or the Norwegian Embassy to help build Nigeria-Norway relations in the areas of sports, fashion, and health?
What I understand from my interactions with Norwegian businessmen today is that there have been initiatives and discussions to establish health cooperation with Nigeria. There are a whole lot of new initiatives in the health sector, especially in telemedicine. There are indications that interested Norwegian business communities in Nigeria are considering tapping into these new areas in collaboration with Nigeria. As for sports, I have been trying. In the last female World Cup, Nigeria met Norway. I tried while I was here the last time to see Nigeria’s male team play against Norway in a friendly. I had discussions with the ambassador on that. Nigeria is one of the best football teams around. Though the team lost in the finals of the African Cup of Nations, they still have a top-notch team with top players. You know too that Norway has top players who have announced themselves on the big stage. You have Erling Haaland at Manchester City. You have Martin Odegaard at Arsenal. So, it will be interesting to see if it will be possible to see the two teams play against each other in a friendly in Norway or here in Nigeria. So that’s an area to look into to see how it is developed. On fashion, I don’t think there’s much to it. I mean, a few private initiatives are going on. Norway isn’t really big on fashion. They make clothes, but mostly for local consumption. It’s a small country making clothes mainly for itself. Maybe it could be an area to explore in the future.
Is the Norwegian Seafood Festival, which you held in 2018, still an annual feature on the Norwegian Embassy schedule?
Yes. It’s an annual event related to the Nordic-Nigerian annual event. I think we had one here in 2020, of which a part was fashion. And food was part of it. Importantly, there’s the Nordic-African Business Summit every September, where Nigerians are the main African participants. It usually takes place in Oslo. The former director of the organization now works at the embassy. In one of the events, we had the Vice President of Norway present, and lots of Nigerians participate in the event every year.
Let me take you back to the question I asked earlier on the Norwegian Embassy’s attempt at building relations between Nigeria and Norway in the area of health. The pharmaceutical industry is big globally, and Nigeria has a fair share of pharmaceutical imports. Do you think it’s an area Norwegian businessmen should look at?
Pharmaceuticals is a nationalized sector of the economy in all countries of the world. I think it’s the same in the U.S. and other big European countries, including India. Therefore, I think Nigeria and Norway should be dependent on some of their big pharmaceutical companies. I think it’s about the organization of the health sector in such a way that the system encourages the establishment of pharmacy industries rather than importation and, more so, gives ordinary people a sense of trust in the health system. Sadly, many wealthy Nigerians go to the UK to have their medical treatment, an act that is unnecessary if the country organizes its health sector. It shouldn’t be necessary to go abroad for treatment. Cooperation and support should be more important in aiding Nigeria to organize the sector. Any cooperation that encourages Nigerians to travel abroad for medicals or continue the importation of pharmaceuticals advocates economic loss and a lack of improvement in the sector.
In what ways, maybe innovative ways, can Nigeria cooperate with Norway to help boost the pharmaceutical industry in Nigeria?
As I said, a big country like Nigeria should have a robust pharmaceutical industry sector. Norway’s population is about 5 million. And so, if it has a big pharmaceutical industry where nationalized industries thrive, then Nigeria can do much more. Given Nigeria’s population and market size, if you produce in Nigeria, you can give access to ECOWAS nations, amounting to about 500 million people. This should be one of the key areas the government should consider a top priority. In Nigeria, there’s domestic inefficiency in almost everything. Though both small and big countries need foreign investments, attracting foreign investment to develop Nigeria’s pharmaceutical industry requires expertise. To help foreign investment, Nigeria needs peace and stability.
Tell me more. Are there efforts to help the Nigerian government in this regard?
In my organization, we try to resolve conflicts through reconciliation wherever they may arise. Our office in Nigeria is doing a lot of work in the middle. Security needs to go around. For instance, if Lagos is safe, you may not say the same of Kaduna. So, if you want to establish a factory in Kaduna, you will need to ensure you tackle security challenges like kidnapping and banditry. We are working with the state governments of different states to try to improve the security situation. Security issues are usually the top priority of every government. Remember that President Muhammadu Buhari said that he will make security issues one of the core focuses of his government by helping to improve the situation. It is the right way, but it’s not easy.
In your opinion, what should the government do to effectively tackle insecurity in Nigeria?
Though it’s not easy, it can be done. It can also be done in many ways. Nigeria has lots of rich people and a large number of poor people. When you have this kind of imbalance—a gulf between the very rich and the very poor—the desperation amongst the poor might lead to organized crime. It’s easy to recruit such people into organized crime. So tackling insecurity is partly about ensuring equal or even equitable distribution of wealth. I also believe that the security system is self-serving. Because there’s a lot of money in security. This means that some people might sabotage the system for financial gain. More so, the government needs to deploy experts as security advisers and eliminate the urge to reward self-serving individuals. You can also see the number of security personnel out here tonight guarding private individuals and some government officials. It’s enormous. It’s a reflection of the fear of insecurity in the country. It is also a drain on the country’s economy. I think the government should take the initiative to see how it gets the country out of this vicious cycle.
Which organization do you presently work for?
I presently work with the “Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue” (hd). I am a senior advisor to the organization.
In which part of the African continent do you work, and in what areas do you concern yourself in your present organization?
I work mostly in the areas around the Horn of Africa. I am concerned with peace and reconciliation. More so, I work wherever my organization works. We have been conducting peace negotiations between a rebel group and the government of Ethiopia. We had two rounds of talks last year. We are also working in Somalia and Sudan. We work in areas where there are conflicts. Just like we have an Ethiopian program, we also have a Nigerian program. What we do is adopt good experiences from some places and replicate them in other places.
Earlier in this interview, you said that your organization has an office in Nigeria.
(Cuts in.) Yes, we have an office in Abuja, Nigeria.
You also mentioned your organization and have been working effectively in the middle-bet area of Nigeria.
Yes. We have been working in northern Nigerian states where banditry and terrorism are present, including the Middle Eastern region.
How’s the process in the Middle Belt going?
There has been an interchange between my organization and government officials in the middle belt. We have been engaging the regional councils and also engaging in interactions at the state level. There are interactions between “hd” officers on negotiations that have been reached in places like Benue and Plateau. As much as I remember, it was also in Kaduna. That’s quite helpful for us to see how successful negotiations in some places will be deployed to benefit some people in other places.
Presently, Nigeria is facing staggering inflation, one of the highest in its history, enduring insecurity issues, a high level of poverty, and also institutional corruption. These are the ingredients of underdevelopment. They don’t mix. When they do, it’s usually catastrophic. Having served in Nigeria for four years, all of it as an ambassador, what do you think the country must do to reduce these underwhelming indices?
Those points raised are bigger issues for me to answer to. Although I have been here for four years, it is only Nigerians who can answer those questions by themselves. The issues raised have to be the main focus of the government of Nigeria. A large number of Nigerians believe that there’s injustice in the country. And such beliefs will eventually have a toll on the security of the country. People are desperate for survival because they have been kept poor for a long time. They do not have opportunities to explore and express themselves. And unemployment is high, and the finance with which to embrace the informal sector isn’t available. A sector that would have helped even with the inequalities has remained unattended to by the government. For this reason, the government loses lots of money because the informal sector usually doesn’t pay tax. It’s a vicious cycle because the government loses money by not investing in the informal sector. It’s about getting everyone into the informal sector to be able to build wealth. The government also needs to eliminate excess waste in the government. And ensure that the big industry also pays tax. The government should also take its anti-corruption efforts seriously. The government officials should live by Pres. Buhari’s statement, “I came into this world with nothing. And I will leave this world with nothing.” He meant that he shouldn’t steal from here because he would take nothing from here. It’s a good slogan, but it needs to be followed up with action.
